Curse

Isileth · Dec 15, 2007, 05:00 AM // 05:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solus Spartan

As we? I haven't seem you suggest anything, just jumped on the rant-wagon.

Your right, its not as if ive made posts suggesting and supporting this idea...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solus Spartan

Anyway, if this was an issue, should have been solved when the title was released. Not solved then, why would A-net care about it now.

Why didnt we get extra storage right away?
Just because something isnt done right away, does not mean it wont be done.

pumpkin pie · Dec 15, 2007, 05:02 AM // 05:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solus Spartan

As we? I haven't seem you suggest anything, just jumped on the rant-wagon.

Anyway, if this was an issue, should have been solved when the title was released. Not solved then, why would A-net care about it now.

I feel I've stated my points, thus I leave let this train-wreck idea die and not give it the attention.

You don't have to give it attention, but Anet has to because all players are their customers, and they have to care, unless they don't want to sell the game anymore.

StelardActek · Dec 15, 2007, 07:33 AM // 07:33

I can't help feeling that the people opposed to this are probably unemployed and thus free to play several hours a day, every day. I'm not trying to be inflammatory here, but that's the only explanation I can think of for their insistence that rerolling is a good idea.

Not everyone can play that much. I work. I have something of a life. I can get an hour or two a day in game. True, getting level 20 doesn't take that long, but I have several maxed titles and more on the way, I have weapons and skills and armour. On the scale of things it's not that impressive, but it has taken me since Prophecies came out to get this far, because I have other things to do in a day besides play. Are you people capable of understanding how insulting it is when you suggest I reroll?

Sure, I could not do it and not get survivor on my main character, and believe me I will if things stay as they are. But I can't think of a good reason /why/ they should stay as they are, and noone has brought one up either. My original idea should be a minor change unless Guild Wars' codebase is a terrible mess, it wouldn't make the title any easier to get than it already is, and thus wouldn't effect anyone who has the title already or is going for it. So what is the problem?

And why in Effiss' name are there so many people who's primary objection seems to be that it hasn't changed yet?? How is there any logic in that??

MithranArkanere · Dec 15, 2007, 04:11 PM // 16:11

The only reason to opose to this is 'greed'. Like those that hate the Zaishen chest because now everyone may get an Eternal Sword.

That's more for games like WoW, you know.

Hanok Odbrook · Dec 15, 2007, 04:19 PM // 16:19

I wonder if anyone thought that just plain old not dying would be incentive enough here. I only have one character with the Survivor title and still going, and one who I f-ed up on in the Crystal Desert. But I have not changed the way I played since Proph went live on day one, long before this title ever came into existence.

I hate dying, it's a real PITA, especially after Pre, when the DP kicks in. I'm an old school gamer back from the days when death to a character meant a very possible loss of that character at worst, and at best a big hit to attributes and the like. I have always played in a manner that meant keeping my characters alive at all costs. If keeping them alive before the title wasn't a big deal to you, why should it be now?

This is one change I can never be in favor of (like the name changing ppl want - maybe you should have put more thought into the name during character creation?). The purpose of this title was to award those who actually played the game by trying not to die to be begin with. Do I wish I could get this title for all my characters? Of course, but only because I wish I could have done a better job at keeping them alive. The title is already cheapened by scrolls, double XP elite weekends, and the like. There is no need to cheapen it even further or create another title simply for those who didn't care about staying alive before.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

MithranArkanere · Dec 15, 2007, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Once you get the title, hat 'encourage not dying' banishes.

This would bring it back.

StelardActek · Dec 16, 2007, 12:39 AM // 00:39

I really hate to disagree with you MithranArkanere, since you seem the biggest proponent of this idea, but I'm not sure I see how this would bring back the encouragement not to die for people who have the title.

That said, on my character which has LS, I have been trying not to die still. Want to see how high I can get that XP thing to go.

I imagine I'd do the same on my main, if it was implemented as I've suggested (the XP count in the title window is different to your actual XP count, only showing how much XP you've gained since the 'reset').

Hanok. I can only speak for me, but keeping my character alive when I first got the game was no big deal because there was NO reason to bother at first. Pre-Searing has no DP as you point out, and much of it was done solo. Only after leaving and playing with others does it become annoying, and after that of course I started playing properly. But I already had deaths at that point, and since I view the game as something fun to do, I never went to the extreme lengths necessary to totally avoid deaths from that point on.

Example: You're out playing with a party. Party wipes except for you, but you can't get in there to res them without dying. So, with the party's encouragement, you let the monsters kill you so you can all respawn at the shrine, and everyone can go on playing. You can't do that kind of thing if you're avoiding all deaths. Nor can you play your PvE character in PvP, something I like to do.

Death is part of the game. Totally avoiding it is fine and good, but you can't do it all the time, unless you're willing to go to extreme lengths and avoid certain things, or bail out of dangerous situations. This idea would allow people to play the game and have fun, without throwing away the chance to get the survivor title later.

Solus Spartan · Dec 16, 2007, 07:21 AM // 07:21

Let's say this, how many characters IF the title was released with prophs, that are prophs characters now, would have the title.

Isileth · Dec 16, 2007, 09:09 AM // 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solus Spartan

Let's say this, how many characters IF the title was released with prophs, that are prophs characters now, would have the title.

Why on earth does how many people have it matter?

StelardActek · Dec 16, 2007, 09:34 AM // 09:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Why on earth does how many people have it matter?

I'm not sure, but I think he's asking who would have gone for it if there had been a title back then.

But I'm still not sure how that matters. A decent amount, I guess? I'd have gone for it, certainly. But I /have/ gone for it on another character, and gotten it, and I think in terms of people who have a survivor character, there wouldn't be any more than there are now. It'd still appeal to the same type of people.

Hanok Odbrook · Dec 16, 2007, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by StelardActek

Hanok. I can only speak for me, but keeping my character alive when I first got the game was no big deal because there was NO reason to bother at first. Pre-Searing has no DP as you point out, and much of it was done solo. Only after leaving and playing with others does it become annoying, and after that of course I started playing properly. But I already had deaths at that point, and since I view the game as something fun to do, I never went to the extreme lengths necessary to totally avoid deaths from that point on.

Example: You're out playing with a party. Party wipes except for you, but you can't get in there to res them without dying. So, with the party's encouragement, you let the monsters kill you so you can all respawn at the shrine, and everyone can go on playing. You can't do that kind of thing if you're avoiding all deaths. Nor can you play your PvE character in PvP, something I like to do.

Death is part of the game. Totally avoiding it is fine and good, but you can't do it all the time, unless you're willing to go to extreme lengths and avoid certain things, or bail out of dangerous situations. This idea would allow people to play the game and have fun, without throwing away the chance to get the survivor title later.

Well, I can say that I never really went to extreme lengths to avoid death either - for any character, including playing each one once through the lower level PvP arenas. For my current Survivor character, I will consider what battles to fight and when to have the party run from battle to regroup more so than before, but I still never really stopped playing the game normally at any point with him. And even with all my other characters, I still play them not to get killed - again I simply hate having that death counter climb any higher.

The problem is, with a max level character you have a greater potential for the party wipe situation you mention, especially in EotN, therefore, it seems to me you will be making the choice to wipe for rez more often, and even more so if you play PvP regularly, thereby have to begin all over again anyway. I think that kind of makes a new mechanic for the title or new title pointless. Plus, we have to consider that current characters at this point can easily access the Kilroy dungeon run which essentially makes the title worthless since this is the Survivor's XP farming spot. Sure it will take a lot of time to work your way up, but nonetheless, it's basically a brain-dead way of achieving the title, which really defeats the vision of it to begin with.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

william1975 · Dec 16, 2007, 04:34 PM // 16:34

from a personal point of view i only want LS on one character and thats my first one, a pre factions one that I learned the game on, and subsequently died a lot with, being a mesmer going through prophicies is a hard task lol.

This idea seems good to me and i would like it.

I suppose the idea is really aimed at those characters made before factions came around. However i don't see this ever being resolved for players, there will always be a large faction on either side.

StelardActek · Dec 17, 2007, 06:14 AM // 06:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

The problem is, with a max level character you have a greater potential for the party wipe situation you mention, especially in EotN, therefore, it seems to me you will be making the choice to wipe for rez more often, and even more so if you play PvP regularly, thereby have to begin all over again anyway. I think that kind of makes a new mechanic for the title or new title pointless. Plus, we have to consider that current characters at this point can easily access the Kilroy dungeon run which essentially makes the title worthless since this is the Survivor's XP farming spot. Sure it will take a lot of time to work your way up, but nonetheless, it's basically a brain-dead way of achieving the title, which really defeats the vision of it to begin with.

These are good points. However, with the mechanic I suggested, I could play how I normally play, then one day decide I was going to go for survivor, holding back from dangerous play until I attained it. This would be good for others too; new characters could play casually, learn the game, then go for the title when they wish. Existing players with new characters wouldn't have to decide from the outset if they want to bother going for survivor or not.

As for Kilroy's punching dungeon, yes, an existing character can go there right away. But with the Journy to the North buff, characters as low as level 10 can get there with minimal risk. And honestly, getting to level 10 is no really impressive feat nowdays, mainly thanks to max armour from Consulate Docks but I think it would be easy enough without sneaking in there.

If you're determined enough to get the title that you're willing to do endless repeats of that one dungeon, then getting to level 10 to get there without dying will be nothing to you.

Hanok Odbrook · Dec 17, 2007, 12:32 PM // 12:32

It's not so much that if you're willing to XP grind that you don't deserve the title, but I am opposed to any character who has deaths being able to achieve any level of the title that they hadn't previously obtained. That's like changing LDoA to a non-death-leveling title just so those who don't want to do it have a chance at getting the title.

The fact that level 10's can now get to EotN and hit up the Kilroy's dungeon is just further cheapening of the spirit of the Survivor title. I would much rather see a completely new title than to see the current one re-designed. In that way, at least those who would like to get another title under their belt can have that opportunity, and to be able to show off what admittedly is an impressive feat for an established character. But let's show a differential between true "Survivor" characters, and just those who have been able to go a stretch without dying.

Heck, I would like to see at least one more tier, if not two or three for the Survivor title anyway - something like "Mythical Survivor", "Demi-God", and "Immortal" for those who have kept going without dying for 5 million XP, 12.5 million, and 25 million, or something like that. However, let's just have some mechanic that doesn't allow the Kilroy dungeon to count towards that reward.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

TaCktiX · Dec 18, 2007, 12:10 AM // 00:10

There will always be people who will use the exploit way of getting a title. Period. Penalizing all the upstanding folks who just want a second shot for the fact that some cheapos can exploit the Kilroy dungeon isn't fair to the more numerous upstanding folks.

And when you consider, going for any stretch without deaths, no matter how many previous deaths, is Surviving. As it currently stands, only the folks with god-like foresight (pre-Factions) or direct intent (post-Factions) have Legendary Survivor. Legendary Survivor is contrary to every other title in the game (aside from Legendary Defender of Ascalon, which is another can of worms entirely) in that you can't currently pick up its mantle at any time you like. You can go for Tyrian Skill Hunter at any point, as can you finally finish that Protector of Cantha, but starting over on Surviving? Nope, sorry, missed your chance no matter how interested you are in getting the title. Go re-make or make a new character, screw you.

Seems very...heavy-handed, and I doubt that's ArenaNet's intent on any of the titles. They're for fun, and going for any of them should be a matter of "well, I want to get [title] now," not some conscious decision to restart entirely and erase all previous titles and have to re-earn those as well. So making this edit will make Survivor in line with all other titles, in the spirit of the title system. How is that wrong?

As for Legendary Defender of Ascalon, it's a gift to the Pre-searing folks, should always be time-separated from Post-searing, should still be mutually-exclusive with Survivor in any form. And I'm saying this knowing I have 2 characters I plan to get Legendary Defender of Ascalon (one's Level 16 and DeathLeveling, the other is Level 6).

Shadowmoon · Dec 18, 2007, 12:26 AM // 00:26

I would have gone for the title if i knew about it, or it was well documented. When i started playing, all wiki said was that the title required not dying while getting the xp, not the part of not dying from the start.
And honestly the title is getting easier and easier to get every day. A-net keeps adding another means to make the title easier. Lvl 10 in GWEN with lvl 20 buff is a big buff. Honestl the hardest part of survivor is getting to the easy to farm spots, for example, lutz for fff or gunnars for dwarf boxing.

Snow Bunny · Dec 18, 2007, 01:07 AM // 01:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by StelardActek

I can't help feeling that the people opposed to this are probably unemployed and thus free to play several hours a day, every day. I'm not trying to be inflammatory here, but that's the only explanation I can think of for their insistence that rerolling is a good idea.

Not everyone can play that much. I work. I have something of a life. I can get an hour or two a day in game. True, getting level 20 doesn't take that long, but I have several maxed titles and more on the way, I have weapons and skills and armour. On the scale of things it's not that impressive, but it has taken me since Prophecies came out to get this far, because I have other things to do in a day besides play. Are you people capable of understanding how insulting it is when you suggest I reroll?

Sure, I could not do it and not get survivor on my main character, and believe me I will if things stay as they are. But I can't think of a good reason /why/ they should stay as they are, and noone has brought one up either. My original idea should be a minor change unless Guild Wars' codebase is a terrible mess, it wouldn't make the title any easier to get than it already is, and thus wouldn't effect anyone who has the title already or is going for it. So what is the problem?

And why in Effiss' name are there so many people who's primary objection seems to be that it hasn't changed yet?? How is there any logic in that??

Mate, we all have responsibilities.

I am one of the most opposed to this.

I am employed, also a fulltime student, and a teaching assistant, and my day is very full, I can assure you. So don't try the "i don't have time for this card".

I rerolled, can't you?

Siadena · Dec 18, 2007, 01:07 AM // 01:07

/signed for the original reason.

Especially for the fact of vets who have had their chars way before titles began, they're screwed for the attempt.

assassin shaun · Dec 18, 2007, 10:46 AM // 10:46

/signed

its a good idea

Shayne Hawke · Dec 18, 2007, 12:12 PM // 12:12

How about we just make the LS title register towards the Maxed Titles track accountwide and be done with it?